ACSS reporter Derek Wilson is reporting
"A source in St. Louis familiar with the situation told NewsCenter 16 Thursday afternoon that Missouri will leave the Big XII and soon join the Big 10. Other schools expected to follow the Tigers are Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers and Nebraska."
Now should we believe this or not, is one thing. Instead of debating the merits of whether this is a good thing or this will actually happen, Derek and I debated how the conference should be arranged. Here’s what transpired
DerekWilson
you believe it...?
i'm guessing its not 100% true. 16 would be gigantic
Stephen Noffke
to become the big 16?
so what, for football, you have two 8 team divisions, and they'd play each of the 7 schools in their division and 1 from the other
or would you do 4 4-team divisions
that's a lot of school
DerekWilson
I like the 4 4 team divisions...but how do you pick the champ?
my guess is they move to a 9 or 10 game conference season
I wouldn't mind 10 (for IU)...two crappy non-conf teams to warm up
for OSU and those teams it makes it hard to want to play a good non conf team
...and what happens to IUs agreement to play mizzou in a few years..? haha
Stephen Noffke
well, I guess we are still agreeing to play them
DerekWilson
haha yea
how would you map out a two division conference though...
Stephen Noffke
Here’s a picture of the schools locations
you have to do east/west break up right? for travel purposes
DerekWilson
yea, i was thinking that
i got to Nebraska, Iowa, Mizzou, Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota, Wisconsin
and Pitt, Penn state, Rutgers, Syracuse, Indiana, Purdue
not sure what to do with OSU/MSU/Mich
Stephen Noffke
I was thinking IU Purdue would be the split
there's that natural gap between MSU/OSU/MU
and NU, PU, and IU
DerekWilson
so we wouldn't play Purdue every year?
I feel like they would have to be in the same division
Stephen Noffke
so you put us both in the east?
DerekWilson
its weird geographically
Stephen Noffke
I feel like we can't split up OSU/MU/MSU. MU has to be in the same conference as MSU and OSU
DerekWilson
yea
it looks like by that map IU would be out east
DerekWilsonCFM 8:51 am
we have no natural rivals in the east
Stephen Noffke
could we send NU out east?
DerekWilson
kinda in the same boat then...
Stephen Noffke
so, are we saying it's 8 team divisions, 10 leauge games, one permanent opponent, and 1 rotating across divisions?
DerekWilson
that i could see
for sure
then you can do IU out east (and i wouldn't go to any games)...I’d day move Purdue out east. good bye
or northwestern
Stephen Noffke I’d go to Columbus, Ann Arbor or East Lansing
DerekWilson
yea
thats true
and we would have a shot at beating Syracuse!
Stephen Noffke
and Rutgers
talent wise, the east would be stronger
DerekWilson
yea
especially basketball I think
(Derek and Steve decided on this split up and the cross division game every year.)
West
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska
Wisconsin
Mizzou
Purude
Northwestern
Illinois
East
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Indiana
Cross Division
Indiana Purude
Michigan Minnesota
Michigan State Wisconsin
Iowa Pittsburgh
Ohio State Nebraska
Penn State Mizzou
Rutgers Northwestern
Syracuse Illinois
Stephen Noffke crap, I found a flaw with my 4 4-team conferences
how would you get a champ game (Editor’s note: Steve completely missed Derek’s comment earlier)
DerekWilson
yea, that's exactly what i was thinking
you could do a BCS formula....haha
what you could do is big 16 conference...east - west divisions
then sub-divisions
something weird like that
Stephen Noffke
and then whoever had the best confrence record in each division (regaurdless of sub-division) would go to the title game
Here’s how the schedule would break out for each team. 8 Conference games. Of these 8 games 3 would be playing the 3 teams in your region. 3 games would be against teams that finished in the same place as you in the other three divisions. 1 rivalry game across regions (Indiana vs Purdue, Michigan vs Ohio State, Illinois vs Northwestern etc.) and 1 game rotating game.
DerekWilson
yea i guess
Stephen Noffke
The only problem with that, is what Michigan was in the same sub-division as MSU, NU and PU, so they get to play those three every year, while Nebraska has to play Iowa, Wisconsin and Minnesota every year.
maybe not a great example, but Nebraska plays a harder schedule and MU gets an easy one?
I guess that's just luck of the draw
DerekWilson
I think at this point its MSU #1 in that division
and they have an easy road
Michigan’s defense is going to be REALLY bad this year
Stephen Noffke
yea they are
or, Michigan plays OSU every year, will Purdue gets to beat up on IU every year
DerekWilson
haha, but don't forget that IU is going to go 13-0 this year
Stephen Noffke
of course
DerekWilson
wait, how did you pick sub-divisions? there is almost a natural geographic division that kinda works out...
Penn State Pittsburgh Rutgers Syracuse
Illinois Indiana Mizzou Purude
Michigan Michigan State Northwestern Ohio State
Iowa Minnesota Nebraska Wisconsin
Stephen Noffke
here is what I have
East/Lake Erie: Penn State Pittsburgh Rutgers Syracuse
South/Ohio River: Illinois Indiana Mizzou Ohio State
North/Lake Michigan: Michigan Michigan State Northwestern Purude
West/Mississippi River: Iowa Minnesota Nebraska Wisconsin
Yes I renamed the regions. North/South/East/West are generic, and yes I know, Rutgers/New Jersey Doesn’t touch Lake Erie and Nebraska isn’t on the Mississippi River.
so you went like, far east, near east, near west and far west in the divisions
DerekWilson
haha i guess
yea, i didn't take into account any cross divisional rivalries or anything
Stephen Noffke
yeah I didn't either, the only difference between us in OSU and PU
DerekWilson
yea, true
My Cross Division Games
Illinois Northwestern
Indiana Purude
Ohio State Michigan
Michigan State Penn State
Iowa Pittsburgh
Mizzou Nebraska
Syracuse Minnesota
Rutgers Wisconsin
So that's what Derek and I came up with. Clearly there is a lot to have to happen before this becomes reality. Even if it does happen there is a lot different ways one could break up the confrence. We just through out our ideas, but how would you guys out there break up the confrence? Any other ways besides the 8 and 4 team divisions?
Update:
Here is ESPN.com's Big Ten Blogger Adam Rittenberg's stance on the 4 4-Team Divisions
Chris from Kansas City, Mo., writes: Adam, what are your feeling on the recent report of the 4X4 plan? In this plan you would see the big ten take Missouri/Nebraska/Syracuse/Pittsburgh/Rutgers. Then put all 16 teams into four, four-team divisions?
Adam Rittenberg: The division argument has gained some traction among fans and media members, but I haven't heard much about it from legitimate Big Ten sources. This format likely would require two weeks of playoffs to determine a league champion, unless they had a way of selecting the top two division winners to meet in one championship game. Two weeks of playoffs seems pretty tricky scheduling-wise, especially for a league that saw plenty of resistance to moving the regular season after Thanksgiving. It would be important to create competitive balance within the divisions, and as I've said all along, geography shouldn't be the overriding factor in creating divisions. If putting Penn State with some new schools from the East makes sense, great. But if it screws up the competitive balance in the other three divisions, I'd rather see Penn State in the same division with an Iowa or a Wisconsin.
Posts
I think that the 4x4 has too many post season issues to be reasonable which means two divisions of 8.
ReplyDeleteOne of my buddies and I have had this discussion before and it got very complicated quickly. I think that based on tradition not everybody can be happy. However, at the same time I also say that some tradition must be preserved and in order to do that some geography must be upset. So in Dan's perfect world geography takes priority to tradition but some tradition and some important trophy games are preserved.
West:
Iowa
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Michigan
Nebraska
Mizzou
Illinois
Northwestern
East:
Pitt
Penn St.
Syracuse
Michigan State
Rutgers
Indiana
Purdue
Ohio St.
I think this works out fairly decently. In football you still would get your Mich OSU matchup either in the last optional game or for the conference title which I believe adds to the rivalry. Also you still have your series of Troph games in the west that are not broken apart too terribly.
For basketball, the west is more or less by far crappier than the east, but you have the ability to play everybody anyway in basketball. I think you put everybody in a 16 team tourney with no byes to determine your conference champ.
Upon further review, the east is loaded in mens soccer as well although I would think you would be able to get some more games played out of division in soccer as well.
Wrestling, like football, sees a pretty good division of talent and works our nicely for invitationals within the division as well as out of division.
Baseball should have no issues playing everybody in a season.
For the ladies out there, softball seems to be divided evenly as well as womens hoops.
I think this division of teams seems best to balance geography and tradition.
I think a North-South division is much, much better than East-West. In terms of travel expenses, guys, its the freaking Big Ten we're talking about here. You honestly think they're not chartering flights?
ReplyDeleteWith a North-South division, here's what you get:
North:
Syracuse
Michigan
Michigan State
Wisconsin
Northwestern
Minnesota
Iowa
Rutgers
South:
Nebraska
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Ohio State
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois
Missouri
I do like the 4x4 divisions as proposed by Noffke, with the following edit: Mizzou moves to West, Wisconsin moves to North, Purdue moves to South. Think it makes more sense geographically.
Fantastic article fellas. I still think it'll only be 14 teams (hoping for no 'Cuse, no Rutgers... we don't need the NYC market), but if it is a MegaConference, i'm excited for that too.
I like Dan's breakout as well. The dread for me, which Derek and I discussed is how IU has nobody close for games that I would be willing to travel to. Yes Fodor, the Big Ten teams might not care about travel expenses, but I sure do. Saying that I do like your North South Breakout as well.
ReplyDeleteDan you broke down Softball, Baseball, Wrestling, what about Lacrosee or Women's Field Hockey? Haha
I still like 4X4 if we can find a good playoff. It allows for more teams to play each other.
I stopped reading b/c I got incredibly excited and wanted to do my own 4 division breakdown:
ReplyDeleteSouth:
Illinois
Missouri
Northwestern
Wisconsin
West:
Nebraska
Iowa
Minnesota
Michigan State
North:
Indiana
Purdue
Michigan
Ohio State
East:
Rutgers
Pitt
Penn State
Syracuse
That would be cool as hell. Then have a 2 round playoff for the big ten championship! Talk about great ratings and a great way for the NCAA to see that playoffs in college football could generate a ton of money.